Tough questions yield frank answers at public forum with lawmakers
January 28, 2024 | By Lisa ScagliottiJan. 30 update: The ORCA Media video recording of this forum is available online at orcamedia.net.
State lawmakers from Waterbury, the Mad River Valley and Washington County hold a town hall-style meeting at Crossett Brook Middle School on Monday, Jan. 22. Photo by Gordon Miller
About 40 people took advantage of a rare occasion last week when seven state lawmakers from our region visited Crossett Brook Middle School to take questions in a public forum.
The legislators fielded comments and questions from local residents, some of whom also have roles as elected town and school district officials. In just under 90 minutes, the event touched on the state’s education funding formula, climate change, public safety, state support for maintaining roads, and accountability of state government to its citizens.
Moderator Willie Docto. Photo by Gordon Miller
Duxbury resident and local innkeeper at Moose Meadow Lodge Willie Docto was the moderator. As a member of the Vermont Travel & Recreation Council and the Vermont Chamber of Commerce Board of Directors, Docto said he keeps up with legislative issues and was happy to accept the role when asked.
Less than three weeks into the new legislative session, the representatives and senators took seats on the stage in the school’s cafetorium: Reps. Dara Torre, D-Moretown, and Kari Dolan, D-Waitsfield, both representing the Washington-2 district covering Duxbury, Fayston, Moretown, Waitsfield and Warren; Reps. Theresa Wood and Tom Stevens, both Democrats from Waterbury, representing Waterbury, Bolton, Huntington and Buel’s Gore in the Washington-Chittenden district; and Rep. Ela Chapin, D-East Montpelier, representing Middlesex and East Montpelier in the Washington-5 district. Two Washington district senators were also in attendance, Sen. Ann Cummings, a Montpelier Democrat, and Democrat-Progressive Sen. Andrew Perchlik, from Marshfield.
Docto started the discussion by asking about the current status of the state’s major revenue accounts. A recent report from state economists said the general and education funds are in good positions to end this fiscal year with surpluses, but they flagged the transportation fund as declining. Do we need to worry about that, Docto asked.
“Yes, we should be worried,” said Perchlik, who sits on the Senate Transportation Committee. Transportation expenses such as bridge repairs and road construction and paving are going up, while revenue from gas taxes is going down, he said. “We’re trying to figure out what to do about that.”
Sen. Andrew Perchlik, D/P-Washington (center), fields a question between Sen. Cummings (left) and Rep. Torre (right). Photo by Gordon Miller
Duxbury resident Alan Pierce who lives on Mountainview Road brought up a high-priority issue that worries town residents and officials alike: the state’s plans for logging in Camels Hump State Forest over the next 20 years and the impact that will have on the steep gravel roads that already are in critical condition needing frequent repairs due to storm impacts and increased traffic from visitors to the state park.
Dolan said she’s aware that state projects will impact municipal roads and she’s asked the Vermont League of Cities and Towns to help identify other towns in similar situations to Duxbury. “We want to support our working landscape. We’re excited about outdoor recreation,” Dolan said, adding though that municipalities bear the responsibility to maintain road infrastructure to certain standards that include proper drainage to control impacts on water quality.
Rep. Kari Dolan, D-Waitsfield. Photo by Gordon Miller
Attendees asked how towns with state lands could receive larger payments in lieu of taxes (referred to as PILOT payments) from the state to account for impacts to roads from activity on state property.
“We’ve heard this problem before,” Perchlik remarked. He cited as examples Coventry where the state’s only landfill is located and Vergennes with a busy state highway running through its downtown. Both look to the state for help to deal with wear and tear from truck traffic.
Cummings said towns need to ask. “Towns should contact the state and let them know to adjust it,” she said of the PILOT payments.
“That isn’t clear enough,” Duxbury resident Lars Dickson responded. “What do you mean?”
Dickson said state officials need to work within budgets set by the legislature with the governor’s approval, so a request isn’t likely to be honored without funding available. Cummings offered that local officials could perhaps request a hearing before a legislative committee to make their case.
The Duxbury Selectboard rescheduled its meeting for Monday night so as not to conflict with the legislative forum. Board Chair Richard Charland was in the audience. He echoed the concern about how future logging operations will impact roads but he emphasized that traffic from visitors to the state park already is having a measurable detrimental effect year-round, particularly on Camels Hump Road.
Duxbury Selectboard Chair Richard Charland raises concerts related to upkeep of gravel roads. Photo by Gordon Miller
“This is going on on a daily basis,” Charland said. “We cannot maintain that road.”
Charland said he last year tried contacting the state administration regarding the issue about whether an increased PILOT payment might be possible. “I was told, ‘if we did it for Duxbury, we'd have to do it for other towns,’” he recounted.
Charland also raised a related issue regarding the local supply of gravel as area quarries close. Duxbury has recently gone as far as Lowell in the Northeast Kingdom to acquire needed material for road repairs, he said. “Ninety percent of our roads are gravel roads,” Charland told lawmakers. “This is something we’ve got to find a way to get addressed.”
Wood acknowledged the issues with roads and gravel. She recalled that Huntington, on the opposite side of Camel’s Hump from Duxbury, had a similar issue with visitor traffic and the state forest. “I think the state created an additional parking lot,” she said to a chorus of “here too” from the audience.
“I don’t have an answer for that,” Wood told the audience. “But I agree it’s something we need to pay attention to.”
Stevens agreed. “Those roads aren’t built for the traffic we’re asking them to bear and the people we’re asking to come to our state,” he said. And as for the response the state bureaucrat gave Charland, Stevens said, “I’m sorry you heard that … that’s not appropriate.”
Jamie Ervin, vice chair of the Duxbury Selectboard, brings up a list of natural resources concerns to lawmakers. Photo by Gordon Miller
‘A crisis of accountability’
Jamison Ervin, vice chair of the Duxbury Selectboard, came prepared with a lengthy statement to share with lawmakers, listing a number of grievances regarding natural resources issues.
Ervin shared frustration with the state’s intentions for logging old-growth forests on state land. She pointed to state plans for managing Camels Hump State Forest and the Worcester Mountain Range Management Area saying they are at odds with planning for flood resilience and the “30 By 30” law enacted in 2023 that aims to conserve 30% of Vermont’s land by 2030 (and subsequently 50% by 2050).
There’s “a crisis of accountability” regarding the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources and its Departments of Fish & Wildlife and Forests, Parks and Recreation, Ervin said.
Additionally, logging plans don’t recognize endangered bat species that may be impacted by cutting in forests; and state policies regarding using leghold traps and hunting using dogs are also out of step with public opinion, Ervin noted. She wrapped up with a question: “What are you going to do to hold [ANR Secretary] Julie Moore, [Fish & Wildlife Commissioner] Chris Herrick and [Forests, Parks and Recreation Commissioner] Danielle Fitzko to account?”
Cummings stepped up to offer a response, starting by pointing out the separation of powers in government with the legislature making laws and the executive branch charged with implementing laws. If the two branches disagree on priorities, follow-through might lag, she explained. “That’s one of the drawbacks of democracy,” she said.
Rep. Dara Torre, D-Moretown. Photo by Gordon Miller
Perchlik chimed in on one of Ervin’s points noting that there has been a court challenge on the state’s proposed trapping law. “I hope the courts can enforce it,” he said. Ultimately, though, he pointed out that if citizens are unhappy with the direction their government is heading, they have one powerful option: “The best thing you can do is elect a new governor,” he told the audience.
Torre took the mic next and thanked Ervin for serving as an elected local official and calling attention to environmental issues. A member of the House Environment and Energy Committee, Torre said she and other lawmakers on the committee hope to find funding to put towards conservation, wildlife, climate, etc. “Money talks,” she said. “Then we can make 30 By 30 come to life.”
Along those lines, Dolan added that Vermont’s floods in 2023 have made issues related to climate resilience top of mind among many in state government. She said there’s support for “nature-based solutions” as first steps such as wetlands protection and floodplain expansion, “actions that are low-cost and work,” she said.
Rep. Tom Stevens, D-Waterbury, answers a question alongside Rep. Theresa Wood, D-Waterbury. Photo by Gordon Miller
‘You choose who runs the state’
Stevens, who chairs the House General and Housing Committee, returned to the accountability theme that Ervin raised. He offered housing as an example where lawmakers have been frustrated with the administration to agree on solutions and then move quickly. Bills get vetoed, then lawmakers return to override vetoes he said.
Echoing Perchlik, Stevens said that citizens ultimately have the power to make the most change. “We’re a democratic society and there are elections,” he said. “You choose who runs the state.”
Stevens talked about his committee’s focus this session as the state faces pressure for more housing. He mentioned that talk in political circles about substantially growing the state’s population likely isn’t realistic soon for a myriad of reasons. “It’s very difficult to imagine 150,000 new Vermonters in 11 years,” he said. Rather than wide-ranging proposals, Stevens suggested that policymakers need to find specific, doable efforts. “We need to ask what is it we can do on an individual town and county basis?” he said.
Duxbury resident Alan Quackenbush (center) listens to Ervin’s remarks. Photo by Gordon Miller
Citizens can make ‘a paradigm shift’
In addressing the crowd, each of the lawmakers sought to offer glimpses into the work they will be doing in their various committees.
Rep. Theresa Wood, D-Waterbury. Photo by Gordon Miller
Wood as House Human Services chair said the housing issue her committee will focus on is emergency housing as the state continues to grapple with a growing unhoused population and a costly motel voucher program funded through pandemic relief funds that are running out. People from more than 1,600 households are homeless right now in Vermont, and that includes some 500 children, people over age 60 and many with disabilities, Wood told the audience.
“We are trying to keep people who are homeless right now with shelter,” Wood said, adding that she doesn’t want “people dying in the cold” on her conscience.
Chapin sits on the House Judiciary Committee which will deal with some of these key issues peripherally, she said. The need for more infrastructure for housing is apparent, she offered, and one way to open the doors includes modernizing Act 250, the state’s land-use law, in order to make developing new housing easier and faster.
“We need a paradigm shift,” Chapin said, suggesting the state somehow “incentivize multi-generational living” and consider ways of “housing differently.” She also turned to the audience and invited their help. “Come talk to us with ideas,” she said. “Ideas that come from the community could end up in a bill.”
Moderator Willie Docto introduces the topic of school funding and Act 127. Photo by Gordon Miller
School funding formula rebuked
One of the sharpest exchanges came over the topic of school budgets and the state’s new law, Act 127, that school districts are struggling to follow as they build their budgets to bring to voters on Town Meeting Day on March 5.
Docto introduced the topic turning to Cummings, chair of the Senate Finance Committee, who co-authored a letter to school districts just days earlier with House Ways and Means Chair Rep. Emilie Kornheiser, D-Brattleboro. Docto referred to the letter as “a nasty-gram.”
Sen. Ann Cummings, D-Washington. Photo by Gordon Miller
The letter served to put districts on notice to not misuse what’s perceived to be a loophole in the new state school funding formula to essentially pad school budgets and leverage a cap on property taxes with the state picking up the tab for extra revenue to fund construction or other costs beyond regular operations.
The complex formula includes a new method of counting student populations and a directive to keep spending increases under 10 percent per pupil or risk review by the state Agency of Education. Districts with cost increases between 5 and 10 percent, however, would have their property tax increase frozen at 5 percent, with the state having to pick up the difference.
The letter dated Jan. 19, warned districts that the state might shift its review to review all of the school budgets using the cap. Cummings defended the legislative scrutiny saying lawmakers are hearing of districts “taking advantage” of Act 127. “My understanding was there would be schools with huge gains and there would be schools with huge losses,” she said.
Acknowledging the difficulty with the new formula’s roll-out, Cummings remarked that legislators aim to write bills “so that the average person needs to understand them. Apparently, we didn’t on this one.”
Cummings said lawmakers are aware of the challenges school districts are facing this year to build budgets taxpayers will support such as the impending end to federal funding from the pandemic and sharply shifting property values compared with town assessments.
“We knew this was going to be a perfect storm for schools,” Cummings acknowledged.
Harwood School Board Chair Kristen Rodgers. Photo by Gordon Miller
Perchlik said he was on a summer study committee that reviewed Act 127. “We had a hard time,” he said. “We felt the formula was so complicated, we didn’t know what the unintended consequences would be.”
Lawmakers heard a rebuke from Harwood Unified Union School District officials in attendance. School Board Chair Kristen Rodgers said the letter implied that districts like Harwood that are working hard to follow the new formula could be punished.
Harwood’s board will meet this week to finalize its budget for Town Meeting Day. The $50 million working draft offers voters a level-service budget that keeps existing programming while trimming 14 positions through attrition. Yet even with using the prescribed tax cap, fluctuations in property values compared with the market are resulting in estimated tax increases between 16 and 20 percent across the district’s six communities. Drastic steps would be needed to bring those down, Rodgers said.
“Staff will have to be cut. Programs would have to be cut. We would not be able to offer the same level of education,” she told the room.
Harwood Superintendent Mike Leichliter discusses school budgeting challenges. Photo by Gordon Miller
Harwood Superintendent Mike Leichliter underscored Rodgers’ point: “What keeps me up at night is the thought that I would have to lay off teachers.”
Former Harwood School Board member Maureen McCracken from Waterbury said the elements in the formula aren’t in synch to accomplish the state’s goal of increasing funding for districts that need it most. “It’s broken. It’s not doing what it was supposed to do,” she said.
The tight schedule to set ballot language for the March 5 vote leaves little time for school districts to figure out new changes to the state funding formula. “To change the rules at the 11th hour is ethically wrong and quite honestly would put districts in unprecedented hardship,” Rodgers said.
Cummings addressed the Harwood school officials: “I apologize for sending the letter to schools who are following the rules. …We know you are suffering. I think schools are trying as hard as they can. We all need to work together. … We don’t want your schools to vote down your budgets.”
Attention on public safety
Another audience member was Olivia Campbell who said she drove from East Montpelier to attend the Duxbury forum. She asked about public safety, recalling an incident in the fall where a U-32 school bus was shot at on its afternoon run taking students home. No one was injured but that news left her child “afraid to ride the school bus. We now drive our daughter to school on most days,” she said.
Rep. Ela Chapin, D-East Montpelier. Photo by Gordon Miller
Campbell also brought up threats that have caused lockdowns at Twinfield Union High School in recent school years. In Montpelier, she said, friends tell her they don’t feel safe on the bike path. She described herself as someone who lived in Vermont, moved away but then returned, “because Vermont is the best, safest place in the country to raise children.”
As Docto encouraged a question, she concluded her remarks with: “What measures will you support in this legislature to keep our children safe?”
“We’re doing a lot of things to look at public safety,” replied House Judiciary Committee member Chapin. While Vermont has added new gun laws in recent years, the focus this session is on ensuring that the judiciary and law enforcement are “well-resourced,” she said. Data show that the best deterrent to crime is the risk of getting caught and consequences coming from the court system, Chapin continued, explaining how the pandemic with jury trials suspended contributed to more backlog making the system “very dysfunctional.” The goal now is to turn that trend around, she said.
Onion River Community Access Media recorded the forum. The video is posted online at orcamedia.net.